Day talons?

[copper1]

Kevin, would the "old"style 1800 day talon still be available through a custom order/charge?

[whisky_kilo]

[ktimm]

May I ask why ? We can have an open dialogue , so let us know what you don't like about the new one.

In my opinion, having used all three the new one is superior in most instances, and this is considering I liked the original one a lot.

Here are the primary differences based on capability:
Old Talons 5 Pockets ( hydration, small long, chamber long, interior security, exterior security). Of these, hydration, small and long were easy to use, the others were more difficult. Compression was a small top compression
New Talon 3 pockets (hydration, main chamber, mini lid) All are very easy to use. In addition you can add org pockets inside if desired, or take of the lid. Compression is a bungie, plus under lid, near bottom or optionally over the top straps.


Here is why I consider the new one superior.
- It is easier to fully utilize the capacity of the main chamber, and even over stuff if need be. The long zipper, meant a bit more work for stuffing gear, especially as you got near capacity, or it was something like a puffy
- The smaller long pocket, was very useful, but IMO not as useful as the small lid. Stuff could sort of fall out when oriented vertically, where the new lid flips over and small items stay secure.
- The newer one can compress smaller, due to the compression
- The newer one is easier to stuff a jacket on due to bungie compression , and top lid, or by using over the top straps.
- The lid is transferrable, so it can be added to your pack bag instead, for quick access gear
- With the numerous capabilities to compress on the new one, you can put a small sit pad at the bottom, and a jacket at the top, or on the side. A lot more options.
- The new one is far more weather proof
- This sounds a bit odd, but I think the new one, is far better for more "Urban use". You can fit books, a small laptop and stuff like that in it, where the other one you could not.

Now the downside to the new one, as was mentioned the velcro closure can be loud. I was turkey hunting yesterday and found it loud but it was easy to mitigate by flipping one side of the material in and then rolling down, then it pretty quite with very little noise (less than a zipper) when opening. We can also do it with just a stiffener if desired instead of velcro.

I believe the harness is a bit better on the new one as well. It has more adjustment.

Personally, I'd rather add a side zip to the new one, then offer 3 versions of Day Talons. From a pure business perspective, and I'm being real honest here, the old one was a loss leader, and basically volunteer work on our part as it was rather labor intensive. If we did offer it again, it would need to be much pricier, or have a big enough run to get costing down. Unfortunately, some of those are not really our "ethos" . We believe in making highly weather resistant, highly adaptable, high quality products at what we consider a very fair price. Honestly, if you look at out packs, which I would certainly consider expedition capable, they are no more expensive than an expedition Gregory, or Osprey at full retail (less in fact). In fact, the Unaweep, is closer in price to the weekender backpacks at regular retail prices.

So lets have a discussion on what you desire. Is it the day pack function or the dual long pockets ? We can do dual long pockets in a non day pack pretty easily. It is our desire to offer a product that works great for everyone. Unfortunately for us, the original Day Talon did not work well for us, at a price we thought was a fair price for it. Personally, I don't think a day pack needs to be $200 or $250.

[wyelkhunter73]

I can't speak for the guys above but I was also interested in one of the older 1000 ci day talon's. I Wanted one with more pockets for organization than the base talon but about the size. For me it is all about organizing for the way I would use the talon. I am probably going to order the base talon.

Are the height and width measurements the same on the base talon and day talon?

[copper1]

Kevin, good points, all. Under consideration.

[whisky_kilo]

My organizational preferences for a talon seem similar to wyelkhunter73. I was looking for a little more organization than the base talon as well as hydration pocket.

You mentioned that organizational pockets can be added inside the new talon if desired. How much will this add to the price?

Would it be possible to provide some additional photos of the new talon on an evo. frame with packbag? I'm also curious to see how it looks with the lid transferred to the packbag. Hypothetically speaking, if a stiffener is used instead of velcro and the lid is then transferred to the rolltop bag, does the top of the talon still maintain its water resistance? I think I'm having a little difficulty visualizing how it would look so any additional photos would be greatly appreciated.

[ktimm]

Here is a little overview video. Yes you can add org pockets , which are 29.99, and they work in any of the bags.

Let me ask another question. Are you planning on using the day pack stand alone, or attached to the pack as a day pack on the frame ? The reason I ask, is that really they are different beasts. We can do another talon to work on the frame that has more organization, in fact we have a few of different volumes that we have already done, just not marketed or sold. By different beasts, I mean that really they have different design objectives. A Day Talon that needs to work on frame , is different than on that needs to work on it's own, and at the rear of a pack bag as a compression panel. Currently, as an option we sell, the base talon, and big lid can both work well on the frame and provide almost 2000 CI of space.



I will get the transferable lid and other photos up.

[ktimm]

[whisky_kilo]

I was planning on using the day talon on the frame as a compression panel as well as organizational storage for smaller items/gear that might otherwise get 'lost' in the main packbag (I plan to use a 4800 ci rolltop). So basically a base talon with more organization as well as hydration pocket, but with harness capability so it can double as a day pack when I want to leave the main pack at camp. And for my purposes, 1000 ci or so of space is adequate since I'm aiming to pack ultralight in those instances anyways. Honestly, I can say the majority of the time I would use the talon on the evo pack frame with 4800 ci rolltop, and use it as a stand alone day pack much less often, although I can see myself using the day pack for all my fishing trips.

The new talon seems to cater slightly more to one who will be using it more as a stand alone that also serves as compression panel. It almost looks like a scaled down version of a rolltop bag but with a lid. Is that the theme of the new day talon perhaps? The new talon is definitely growing on me with each new video or photo that gets posted up. I would be interested in the side zipper option as well. Will this option be available?

Are the other variations that were never marketed or sold available through special order? I'm curious to see what they look like.

[ktimm]

Thanks for the reply. We aim to solve as many "use cases" for customers as we can, in an efficient manner. That being said, the new Day Talon, is a scaled down version of the roll top. It really is, and there are a few reasons for this. First, the roll tops have been very popular, and in discussions with customers, many were looking at us largely because of the more weather resistant designs (they had sort of been there done that with less weather proof designs). Secondly, it allows many of the accessories to be relatively transferable.

Certain things are relatively easy for us to do, since we have a pretty good feel for them. One would be adding a zipper on the roll top, another would be adding a hydration pouch on a base talon. They would require a bit of a custom charge, but not a ton.

Yes we have done several custom items, like side / long pockets and things like that. For awhile, I have thought that long pockets that connected to a base talon would not be a bad option, Neither would be dual long pockets attached to a hydration pocket as well, sans harness.

The easiest way is just tell us what you really really want. We aim to solve that, more than anything. We take a lot of time talking to our customers, to really figure out their use cases, and try to plan products around that. We can't solve every use case, but we aim to solve most of them