Unaweep Review after the PCT

[kuponokai]

Paradox Unaweep Fortress Roll Top 4800 CI with side zipper, X21RC fabric, no frame extensions, mesh draw string Talon, and Multi-Lid

After carrying this pack 2,600 plus miles on the Pacific Crest Trail this year I can say that it is the most comfortable pack I have ever owned. I’m 5’-9” weighing 164 pounds at the start of the hike and 148 pounds by the end. I consider myself a lightweight hiker, but by no means an ultralight hiker. I have serious ultralight hiker envy, but am too practical to suffer the deprivation it requires. My base pack weight (no consumables) was between 13-16 pounds depending on weather. My average pack weight was probably around 25 pounds, ranging from 18 pounds at the lightest to 45 pounds with a full load of food and 6-7 liters of water. I was a bit of an oddball amongst the other thru-hikers who mostly used various ultra-light packs from brands like Gossamer Gear, ULA, SMD, some Z-Pack, and some Osprey Exos. I see a smattering of other packs as well, the Paradox amongst them. ULA seemed to be the most common pack brand on the trail. These UL packs are between 17 and 42 ounces. My Unaweep (in the configuration above), by comparison, weighs 3.8 pounds. While this may be light for a full frame pack capable of hauling considerable weight with comfort, it is by no means an ultralight pack. Having used a number of UL packs, I believe that giving up load carrying capacity and comfort for weight savings is false economy. I haven’t yet tried an UL pack that could properly distribute a 40 plus pound load properly, much less comfortably. I think that most of my thru-hiker cohorts have never experienced a pack like the Unaweep and therefor have no idea that their packs pretty much suck. That said, for a long trail, I wish my pack was lighter, and I think it could be.

I’m using the mesh Talon. A Talon is an auxiliary bag that straps onto the back of the roll-top main pack. It adds extra load capacity and some organization, but its main function is to compress the main pack. This results in a load that’s stacked vertically and kept tight to your back. The mesh Talon has a sleeve for a hydration bladder. I keep things that I want to access often and that can get wet in bad weather there. I also use a brain, what they call the Multi-Lid, for organization.

Occasionally some of my trail companions would look at my pack and trot out the old aphorism, “the bigger your pack the more stuff you’ll carry.” More often than not their own low volume UL packs are stuffed to the gills, bulging like pregnant guppies. Sleeping pads and bear-cans are strapped to the outside, tents and poles are stuffed into side pockets, camp shoes, poop trowels, cups and various and sundry other items hang on the outside making them look like tinkers off to sell their wares. Water bottles are slung from chest straps, and mesh pockets are distended with whatever won’t otherwise fit inside. It gets really interesting when they have to haul a lot of water. Even if they do have a pack with adequate volume, the resulting load is often poorly distributed resulting in pull-back. But they take pride in and even love their ultra-light packs, confident that they’re saving weight and therefore energy. In comparison almost all of my gear is tightly stowed inside my pack with the exception of stuff in the Talon that I want to get to quickly. My hydration bladder is in the Talon sleeve and water bottles are in my side pockets. My load is tight to my back and protected from weather. The weight is distributed to my shoulders and hips as I wish, and all completely controllable because I have a proper frame to carry and distribute that load. What they call frames in most UL packs, much less the air-beams, cannot come close to this ability.

When I ordered my pack in spring of 2015 I was tempted to get the 3900 cubic inch Roll Top. I couldn’t imagine using any more space. I’m glad I got the 4800 cubic inch Roll Top instead. I can fit the big Bear Vault 500 horizontally in this bag just fine. The side zip was recommended and I got it, but I wish I didn’t. I think I used the side zipper a half a dozen times in the entire five and a half months on the trail. The BV500 goes in and out of the roll top just fine without the zipper and the zipper leaks. Actually, in most rains, it doesn’t leak much, but the zipper head has a tendency to work its way down over time, opening an inch or two at the top of the bag. One day in a thunderstorm that was like being under a fire hose, things got wet. I don’t know if the zipper had worked its way down or if the water simply forced its way in, but the pack was wet inside. The brain got wet inside too. This was no surprise because, while the brain’s fabric is waterproof, its zipper is not and faces upward fully exposed. I’d like to see a waterproof zipper here and a protective flap.

After about 800-miles or so, I noticed the fabric covering the waist belt rolling. This resulted in the reinforced seam normally at the edge of the belt migrating to the inside face causing uncomfortable pressure points. When I finally got around to contacting Paradox about half way thru the trip they were extremely helpful and sent me a replacement belt (with a couple of new bar tacks to prevent rolling with no charge. The bar tacks seemed to fix the problem and I had no problems with it the rest of the hike.

While I love my Unaweep, for thru-hiking I wish it were lighter. I don’t know exactly how Paradox would do it, but I think for thru-hiking a pack capable of carrying a hundred pounds and lasting ten thousand miles is overkill. Our loads are relatively light. Fifty pounds is probably the maximum a thru-hiker would ever need to carry. I’m guessing that a pack made specifically for thru-hiking could made substantially lighter. The Z-Packs Arc Blast (a nice piece of kit) is 3661 cubic inches and weighs only 18 ounces. I challenge Paradox to build a bigger and more durable pack than the Arc Blast that weighs around two pounds. What do you think Paradox?

[mankind117]

Nice review, I've been quite pleased with my unaweep as well. I only have about 500 miles on, not quite a PCT thru hike! I hike a lot with a group that has ultralight in its name and I too am an oddball. The packs you mention are quite popular (ULA, ZPACKS, Gossamer Gear) but I've noticed the same things, people take these packs and stuff them to the gills, hang stuff to avoid carrying what could be perceived as a heavy pack etc ... I'd rather have a pack that compresses well, fits everything inside except my raingear and water bottle, actually can carry a load. Yes, the packs weights a pounds more but so what, it carries but, and it a lot more functional and robust than the ultralight packs. Once I'm carrying winter/ deep shoulder season gear, or more than a day or two of food or lots of water the unaweep wins hands down.

I noticed the same problem with the fabric rolling around the waste belt on might. Can you post a picture of what they did to bartack it to prevent this? I'm curious if I could sew this myself on my belts?

[blgoode]

What I use for now as my backpacking set up is the 3900 unaweep, us frame and no talon. You could I bet get by with just the pack bag and cut weight dropping the top lid and talon. I think I remember my unaweep 3900 no talon being 2lb 15 oz I think?? Basically right at 3lbs. I used a 1.5lb gorilla and went back to the paradox. Just too comfortable and love the pack setup and material.

[Nathan C]

Great to hear your experience on such a long hike. Any photos you can share?


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[Mocs123]

My Unaweep 4800 in X21RC that I used for two weeks in Alaska was 48.6oz with a Large hipbelt (I am a 34 waist but like a full wrap) and no trimming (ie some really long straps). I did not use a Talon.


I have a Unaweep 3900 on order in X21RC and plan on doing lots of trimming. I think that I can get it down to around 37-38oz. This would be lighter than a lot of light frame packs and still be super comfortable.

The hipbelt seems heavy to me (reportedly over 10oz) and I think it could be made thinner (but still long and wide for a good hip wrap) and reduce the weight quite a bit. It wouldn't be enough for carrying a elk quarter out but would be enough for backpacking loads (generally less than 40-50lbs). I would love to see SO experiment with a lighter belt. My loads are generally less than 30 and often less than 25, but on a two week trip when carrying some group gear can get up near 40lbs. The Unaweep was the first pack that could carry that kind of load comfortably after carrying light loads for so long.

A lighter belt could also get rid of the PALS webbing and either have integrated hipbelt pockets or have their own add on pockets. I have 3 sets of add on pockets (Zimmerbuilt, Gossamer Gear, and McHale) and none worked with the PALs webbing on my belt. I ended up rigging the Zimmerbuilts to where they work pretty well but they don't use the PALs at all.

[kevin_t]

Here are my .02

- I think for most backpacking purposes, the Divide , especially the new Divide 4500 is the better choice. At 2 lbs 12 to 3 lb 6 (estimated weights) depending on how you configure it , it is a win in my opinion. It will fit a bear can inside or strapped to the outside. The bottle pockets are dimensioned as well. For a general purpose do all, it's hard to beat the original Unaweep now renamed Unaweep Fortress. The name change, is to better differentiate in discussion the various packs. I would not hesitate to use an Exposure either, if I valued access and bear can use more than weight savings.

Lighter belt, the original Divide belt is lighter it has a little lighter foam and no mesh. The mesh, is actually the big one as far as weight savings. I have cut the mesh off a few of my belts, even though I prefer the mesh for big hauling , I have cut it off not so much to save weight, but for winter usage so snow doesn't hold in the mesh. We have some of the Divide belts around, and likely will make a few more but eventually discontinue them. Most people have asked for the regular style belt.

We have made a few lighter / thinner belts, but not produced any yet and probably won't anytime soon, but they work well for moderate loads.

The waist belt fabric rolling is interesting, and we know it has sometimes been an issue, but relatively rarely. We also know you can massage it back in place. We have not been able to put our finger on what causes it, but we do believe it has to do with how people are carrying the pack or using the belt. In our use, NO ONE I have been around has had it happen UNTIL RECENTLY. I have loaned packs , and backpacked with a lot of different people. One person I loaned a pack to used it for 6 weeks, doing essentially remote forest logging and tree removal. The person is a friend of mine, and notoriously hard on gear, and I thought for sure he would screw something up, but other than spilling gas in the pack bag it came back fine. So , you noticed, I said UNTIL RECENTLY .. on the rolling. Unfortunately , I could not determine the cause. I loaned the same aforementioned pack used for forest work to someone I helped pack out an animal with. It was an incredibly short pack out like 1.5 miles maybe a little more. He was older (pushing 70 yrs young) and he didn't even carry the pack the entire distance (his son went back after he brought out a load and helped). Somewhere in the 1.5 miles in and 1.5 miles out with a load the belt rolled. However, being dark out, we just tossed packs in a truck and I got them from them the next day. Since we were dispersed while packing out, I never was able to observe it, but it did happen and happened within a 1.5 mile pack out. This pack in question had probably 6 previous pack outs (as long as 7.5 miles and 4k vert on packouts) , plus tons of backpacking, and the 6 weeks of use by my friend (which was almost all at heavy weights with a chainsaw and logging gear) . No issues, until the 1.5 miles out with about 60 lbs.

How to lighten the packs:
Here are a few ways - Trim webbing , Cut out mesh on belt, change to Chicago screws for hip belt attachment. change cordage to lighter cordage in bottle pockets etc. If you really want to push it, at lighter weights you can actually go without a harness by just connection webbing to the LL -> Belt and putting a pad where it will hit your chest (That is really pushing it , but it does work , I carried probably 25 lbs 3 -4 miles in Gunnison Gorge that way as an experiment). Shouldering the pack is different obviously . I also suspect the new Revolution could be trimmed to a really low weight without much sacrifice to sub 40 lb backpacking with a little care, and that a real basic bag from lightweight material could be made to get the complete pack in the 2 lb 10 - 12 ounce range. The downside to that approach is your bags are throw away bags essentially similar in material by some of the other UL packs. The UL Revo has some merit, in essence you could have two Revo sheets, one fully configured, and one trimmed / trimmed / trimmed and just swap them based on need. If you are only carrying a pack 5 miles, go for full features comfort, if you are going really long , go the trimmed version.

[Mocs123]

I am going to trim the straps on my pack as many are quite long and I may even try your Chicago Screw idea.

Are you saying that there is a layer of fabric between the mesh and the foam on the inside of the belt? I would have thought cutting the mesh out would destroy the structural integrity of the belt. I am not sure if I could bring myself to cut the mesh off of a belt though.

How much lighter are the Divide Belts for say a large? I wouldn't pay for a new belt for an ounce difference but if we get into the 3-4oz range my interest would be peaked.

I will say that I appreciate your constant product improvement and eagerness to build a better product. If I didn't already have a 4800 Unaweep I would probably get a Divide 4500 but I am looking for a smaller pack to supplement the 4800. I think this evolution of the Divide incorporates good changes with the dementional water bottle pockets and more durable front mesh pocket. I can also say that the customer service From SO is top notch and the best of any company I deal with.

I am looking forward to taking my 3900 bag on the Wind River High Route this Summer and taking my 4800 back for another 2 week trip to Alaska in 2017. Great pack!!!

[kevin_t]

No large divide style left but a medium is 7.9 ounces


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[kuponokai]

Kevin, Nathan,

Thru-hikers spend ridiculous sums for lighter gear. We're also willing to trade durability for weight. By some accounts the Z-Pacs cuben Arc-Blast is only good for one thru hike and yet people still buy it. I saw some pretty ragged ones towards the end of the trail. On the other hand, most of the other packs looked to be in pretty good shape. If you were to make a thru-hike specific pack, and I know it's a financial decision, a lighter fabric would be first on the list. I like the comfort of the belt and shoulder straps, but they could probably be trimmed as well. How about the frame? Could you go with a smaller diameter? How about carbon? A quick google search turned up lots of tubing and fittings. I'd add some pics, but I can't figure out how to upload them.

[kevin_t]

Understood . Yes cuben can get ratty pretty quick which is why we moved on from it and the weight savings vs x21 is not that much - approx 2 -3 ounces .

We have made a lighter aluminum frame , but in the end we didn't trust it and feel setting a different expectation would be hard .

We explored carbon before we ever sold any packs. We also did carbon covered aluminum as well. For carbon , with our style frame , it would require extensive tooling and need to be essentially a Kickstarter project with a weight saving of 2-4 ounces . Other carbon stuff can be used with connectors but usually you give up as much weight in connectors as you save or close to it.
Personally , I think with the current platform and technology the best / easiest way is to buy a Revolution - yes you heard me correct and trim it a lot and make a light Silnylon type bag for it . The revo is heavier than the Evo but unlike the Evo had more opportunity to save weight . Honestly that way , you could own two revo frame sheets essentially ... One full featured and one trimmed ... Build a super light bag and use them depending on need . Just my 2 cents .

We have some prototypes around that we have taken pretty extreme measures to save weight , you would be surprised probably by what is missing on them


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