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[kevin_t]

In my opinion, if you want to run a bladder in the pack, the easiest way is shown above in the video. If you want it outside your pack bag, there are a few options (between frame, in a talon with a hydration pocket, in a lid). All have benefits and drawbacks. I prefer to not have one in the pack, but it is a risk reward, but that is just me. If I don't mind the risk, I would use one as shown above. If I want one outside the pack bag, I would go between the frame or in a hydration capable talon.

[udpumpkin]

[udpumpkin]

Sorry for all of the posts. I just found an old thread with a customer that modified the lid. There were good pictures of his lid. It seems that the lid in its current (?) form may not be stable enough to have much weight in it for the bladder. I don't have the skills to modify the paradox lid like this person did.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=115&start=20

[ernda]

[quoteSorry for all of the posts. I just found an old thread with a customer that modified the lid. There were good pictures of his lid. It seems that the lid in its current (?) form may not be stable enough to have much weight in it for the bladder. I don't have the skills to modify the paradox lid like this person did.
][/quote]

Actually, the Mchale top lids are similar the Paradox ones in that there is no side skirt or bungied edges. It's important to have relatively vertical straps to cinch down the top pocket and keep the tension even on both sides.

[Nathan C]

I'll give my take on hydration bladders in a Paradox.

First, we are not going to offer hydration ports in the Unaweep as a standard option. It fits with our core better to offer a bag that can be made waterproof (with seam sealing), and with a waterproof pack bag it makes no sense to put a potential 3 Liter water leak inside the pack bag. Secondly, hydration ports on some bags and not on others adds cost, complexity, and more cutting and management time than you would expect, which drives costs up over the whole product line. We'd rather say "NO" and offer other very workable solutions.

I have been a water bladder user for close to ten years now. In the last year and a half I have slowly and unintentionally been converting over to water bottles. Why? Well, I got a sawyer filter bottle.



With this I simply scoop up dirty water, flip the lid to expose a straw, and drink. The bottle contains a sawyer filter so I drink clean water from a dirty bottle. With our pack system, I can carry the sawyer bottle in one side pocket and a 1.5L aquafina or dasani bottle in the other pocket. I carry dirty water in both bottles, and simply refill the sawyer bottle when it runs dry from the other bottle. I like this system because I can access both bottles without taking the pack off! When I come up to water I simply reach back, grab the bottle, refill, and "reholster" it all without taking off my pack. It is much much faster and easier than what I've done with bladders in the past. In fact these days all I'm using a bladder for is water storage or as a gravity filter (which the sawyer bottle can be adapted to do).

So, on to the bladder diehards. I've used a 3L bladder in a Day Talon pretty extensively. In terms of ease of use a Talon is the best bladder carry method I've tried. The bladder is very easy to access, you can put inline hookups to connect to a pump filter easily, etc. The drawback is that the weight is further from your back affecting COG. This can be mitigated somewhat by loosening the bottom straps from the load shelf and tightening the two top compression straps, effectively raising the talon and the weight. Higher is better in this case, and compressing the pack bag to get the water weight closer to your back helps as well. Packing your pack so that the middle is compressible and heavier items are in the top helps too, as those heavy items up top work with the weight in the Talon to balance the pack a bit. It's a workable solution and something that gets better with a bit of practice.

Putting the bladder in the pack bag and running the hose out the rolltop is easy, cheap, and works well. But it's not something I'd ever personally do. If you get our bag so you don't need a raincover, why put water inside the bag?

You can put the bladder in a top lid which is easy and works well, and you can also suspend the bladder from one side compression strap and secure the bottom in a water bottle pocket, but the drawback here is if you go through brush you could get a hole, and you have to balance the side to side weight carefully when packing.

In conclusion, if I'm taking a bladder I'll probably stick it in the hydration pocket on a Talon, but most of the time I'll be using water bottles for ease of use and simplicity.

[machco7]

Nathan, thanks for your comments. Several paradox videos highlight the area between the frame and the packbag as a great place for hydration storage, so I was wondering why you didn't mention it as an option in your write-up here. Kevin mentioned earlier that he didn't like the solution because of bag distortion issues where the water bunches up in the gaps of the frame. If both of you agree then I take it this isn't really a great solution despite the better COG. Or maybe you were just addressing the Uniweep.

I see your points about the rear hydro placement as being adequate but I am thinking why compromise when a better solution is available and it seems your system provides for that. I was considering hanging the hydration talon between the frame and the packbag thinking that it might solve the water bunching. This is similar to the hydration sleeve that I see in other packs on the market. The downside to those configurations is that the hydro-bag is a pain to remove, fill and repack when the packbag is full. The Evo allows one to tilt the packbag away from the frame for easy hydro removal and reattachment. So you have a potentially better "mouse trap". But back to the water bunching, perhaps I can install a stiff (but light) plastic sheath to the inside of the hydro-talon to better distribute the pressure so the water doesn't bunch through the Evo frame's gaps. Would you still prefer the outer placement to this?

Maybe I am missing something, it is really hard to evaluate without touching/seeing the bag so your comments/advice are helpful as I try to configure my order. Would love to hear your thoughts.

[machco7]

Maybe it is simplest to ask it this way (regarding water storage BETWEEN the frame and the packbag in the Evolution):

#1) Hang naked water bag: Kevin says it bunches in the frame's gaps

#2) Hang using Hydration Talon: maybe this better distributes the pressure to avoid the bunching issue

#3) Hang using Hydration Talon w/ stiff internal plastic modification: in the event #2 doesn't do the job


So my question is, would you prefer placing the Hydration Talon on the rear of the packbag over the three options above?

[Nathan C]

[machco7]

Thanks Nathan. My question was whether you think hanging the hydro talon between the frame and the pack bag would be an improvement to hanging a naked water bladder in the same spot. Maybe it allows the water to settle better in a compressed set up. I was thinking a frame sheet in the talon would help distribute pressure on the bladder in thiss setup but maybe not necessary. I would have an additional base talon on the outside in the standard location for compression purposes. If there is no improvement, there is no reason to order two talons.

[Nathan C]