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Hello from Finland guys!

I have and have had many different shelters during the years, but I'm new to ultralight tipis/shelters and stoves. The hot tent I have at the moment is a Helsport tipi, which is good, but terribly heavy. Same goes with my current stoves, work but are heavy. I do some trips with a friend or two, but mostly I'm skiing or hunting just with my dog. I don't even have a snowmobile anymore, so it's always either backpack, a pulk, or canoe where all the stuff is loaded in. I have convinced myself that I need a lightweight shelter + stove. Skiing trips with pulling a pulk are easy, there few more pounds won't matter that much, but a 4 person tipi + stove would be packable even for solo packpacking trips. Especially on late autumn hunting trips this would be much more comfortable compared to open front lean-to type shelters I use now.

I've been qoing back and forth between 4 person tipi, Redcliff, and Cimarron. Cimarron would be ideal for solo trips, especially weightwise, but I'm afraid not having standing height near the center pole leaves it out of the question. So it would be either 4 person tipi or Redcliff. Weight is about the same, max height is the same. At least in theory a tipi is more resistant to winds, but not sure how big the difference is in real. Do these two designs have much difference when it comes to handling winter weather? I would say where I live we have real winter conditions. Nothing extreme, but the winter lasts from November to early May. Every winter temp. drops to -40 at least for a short perioid of time, sometimes below. Right now we still have about 3 feet of snow here. So my question is if either 4 pers. tipi or Redcliff have any differences when it comes to handling snow fall ? Is either on better from the other handling the heavy snow fall without cleaning the snow out of the fabric, let's say it would snow heavily overnight for example?

How about the half liner, which is included in bundle? I have experience on lywith full liners, or without any. Would the half liner give enough protection from condensation on solo trips?

Last thing is the stove. Both 4 person tipi and Redcliff bundles have large stove included. Would this be enough also for -13 to -40F temps? Firewood here will be mostly pine. As it easily builds up a lot of creosote, I would think not having a too large stove is good, as you can then burn it richer most of the time. Also with pine there's plenty of sparks, so I think an extra foot or two of pipe would help, as the sparks would have more time to burn out before reaching the canopy. If I got it right, the spark arrestor ultra would be a good choice in winter conditions, and probably when having pine as firewood too. Also with a slightly longer pipe I could use the same stove with my Helsport tipi, which has 8' 8" of peak height.

Ultralight hot tents really are pretty much non existing here. Not much dealers, not much experiences heard around. I've read the forums quite a bit on the subject, but would appreciate all the input here. After all it's quite expensive purchase. I'm happy to pay for a quality product, just would like to make the right choice. When I just can get along with the thing that for outside European Union purchaces I have to pay 3% customs and 24% Finnish value added tax

Thanks in advance!

I know I feel for your customs and wish we could reduce that but it is beyond our control.


I think the Redcliff because it is steeper on the sides handles big snow a little better as long as you maintain the ends a bit.

-40F .. I have no advice on , I have been in -25F and a large stove or larger should work fine.

I'd take a Redcliff personally. If you want a smaller or solo / dual non standing shelter consider adding a Cimarron since they use the same pole. Remove one section from the Redcliff and it is a Cimarron pole

Thanks for the reply.

Yeah, nothing you can do with Finnish customs and taxes of course. Just makes the final price quite a bit higher.

Handling -25F is fine. Most of the times it won't be that cold, and if it does, it should still be much warmer in the tent than outside

Cimarron is very tempting as much lighter option. On canoe trips or in winter with a pulk won't make difference, but on backpacking trips it would. I guess I have to make a template or such out of tarps to see how the size is in real. Also the possibility to use liners with Redcliff/tipi gives an advantage. Getting both Redcliff or 4 person tipi with stove + Cimarron canopy is pretty much out of question at this point.

If I would get a Cimarron with large stove, and then planning to use the stove with my Helsport tipi on some group trips, what would recommended pipe length be? Helsport has about 100" peak heigth, so I guess stove + at least 9' of pipe would be needed, maybe 9,5. With that pipe lenght it would be too long to use with Cimarron I guess, or would it? With Redcliff or 4 pers tipi it should be fine.

With your current tipi getting it a foot or so above the apex is needed, and stoves are 15 -18 inches high

On the red cliff a minimum of a foot and max of two feet above would be best. Several run it at about 2 ft above. Getting above that can have issues in high winds.

Go with a Redcliff, really it is a pound more than a Cimarron give or take a couple ounces and while I live the Cimarron the red cliff is more shelter.

Thanks again. I think Cimarron is out, so it'll be either Redcliff or 4 man tipi for me.

Even with more usable space of the Redcliff, something pulls me towards the 4 man tipi. Not sure if it's just the possibility for more stake outs, a bit less weight, or what. Most of the time it will be only me + a dog or two, occasionally two persons.

15% tax sounds like luxury

I have a 4 person and love it. I've never been in it below -20 though. I have a large stove and was perfectly comfortable.
I like that the 4 person has a lot of places I can stake it down. One night there were gusts of 40mph and the tent was fine.

When I got mine, they didn't have the Redcliff as an option, but even with the additional space, I think I'd still go with the 4 person. I love it for me, my girl and her German shepherd.

Also, I'm not sure if you saw this or not, but there is a thread here comparing the 4 person and Redcliff.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=678

Yes, I read the comparisons between a 4 man and Redcliff. Well, made my decision and placed an order